together, I contacted Lila by phone. She related that William is “the same old William, except he’s not depressed anymore!” She no longer pushed him to tell her everything in his life, and they were getting along “like a normal adolescent and mom.” 2. Counselees, not pastors, are the experts on their lives and problems. If you move from an “expert” stance to this position, your entire approach to pastoral counseling may change. Our approach assumes that counselees know much more about their lives